"Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes, they can be completely recycled. Polyethylene is already regularly recycled and used again in different products. The poly tank industry has shown areal concern for our environmental future by working with Auckland University on finding new ways to make it easyfor tank owners to recycle their own tanks at the end of their product life"
To ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com
Jul 9, 2008 11:36 AM
Recycling spent poly tanks
gmail.com
I am doing some research on recycling of spent poly tanks and was wondering if you could direct me to the source of your website statement "yes they can be completely recycled"
Thanks
Don Matthews
---------------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan to Don Matthews
date Jul 9, 2008 12:16 PM
subject RE: Recycling spent poly tanks
Dear Don
Thanks for your email. Could you please give me some more details on where you are from and what the research entails. I'd be happy to provide more information when I understand a little more about your project.
Best regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia Inc
1st Floor, 40 Ipswich City Mall, Ipswich Qld 4305
PO Box 826, Ipswich Qld 4305 Australia
Ph: +61 (0)7 3812 1450 Fx: +61 (0)7 3009 0600
Web: http://www.rotationalmoulding.com/
ARMA is a proud member of the Alliance of Rotational Moulding Organisations
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for your reply. I am just an ordinary person looking into the recycling of spent poly tanks for my own private interest. I'm a little confused as I have heard from another source that spent poly tanks are not able to be recycled at present. As you say 'yes, they can be completely recycled' I thought you might be able to shed some light on this.
Thanks
Don Matthews
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Don
No problems. Poly tanks can be completely recycled.
There is usually some confusion around recycling tanks because they cannot be 100% recycled back into another tank. However 100% of the tank material can be recycled (just not into another tank).
The process for recycling will depend on their length of service. Polyethylene is commonly recycled at the moment as a part of the everyday manufacturing process, however most of this current "regrind" is manufacturing scrap and therefore usually very clean. For tanks which have been in service for long periods of time, there can be a build-up of silt in the bottom of the tank, which needs to be roughly cleaned and of course, the tanks have to be cut down into pieces small enough to be ground up.
Tanks in service will almost certainly have some UV degradation and this will affect the type of products the regrind can be used for. The reason for this is that it is impossible to be sure what chemicals may have been stored in tanks and if these chemicals were to survive the recycling process, the material may not be safe for drinking water or food contact, even though in Australia many tank aren't used for drinking water. Hence the difficulty in recycling back into new tanks.
There are however, many uses for regrind in the agricultural and materials handling industries, which already uses products manufactured from regrind.
ARMA is currently engaged in researching what gaps there are in infrastructure to ensure that the process of recycling will be easy for homeowners in the future. I hope this has been helpful.
Please let me know if I can provide any further information.
Best regards
Leisa
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Leisa,
Thankyou for the information sent. It is good to know polytanks are being completely recycled into useful products.
I assume spent tanks are included but couldn't find any mention of these in your reply? How are they being recycled? Ones that have been completely degraded by UV and have reached the end of their useful life. These are now beginning to make an appearance in the environment and I am wondering what produsts they are being recycled into.
Thankyou for your help with my research.
Don Matthews
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Leisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2008 1:30 PM
RE: Recycling spent poly tanks
To: Don Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com
Dear Don
Most of the spent tanks will be recycled into animal troughs, road barriers and other non food grade products.
Best regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
----------------------------------------------------------
To : ldonlan@rotationalmoulding
Jul 24, 2008
subject Recycling spent poly tanks
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
Thankyou for your latest reply but I am having a problem with all of this.
You say "Most of the spent tanks will be recycled into animal troughs, road barriers and other non food grade products". From this I take it that recycling is not actually taking place at the moment but will at some time in the future.
To my knowledge the degradation of polyethylene by UV is an irreversible process and no technology is currently available to reverse this. I would be most grateful if you could direct me to where this might be happening or to any research centres working on the problem of reversing the UV degradation process.
If indeed spent poly cannot be recycled I have a few more problems.
1. What is going to happen to the millions of tanks which are going to be lying around littering the landscape in future years? The problem has already begun. Tanks are already beginning to fail, some even well before their warranty expires. John Rosenfelder has a tank which he cannot repair and which the dumps will not take because to burn them releases toxic fumes. He is asking you what to do with it. This is only one example. There are others lying around waiting to be dealt with. "Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes, they can be completely recycled" says the Association of Rotational Moulders in Australasia's website, The Watertank Group. I am waiting with interest to see what you do with John's tank.If the polytank industry cannot come up with a solution, and quickly, we are headed for a major major environmental problem. What thought has been given to this in the rush to take advantage of the current water crisis and sell as many tanks as possible?
2. I do not seem to be getting any replies to my email questions sent to manufactures etc.
Probably because I only have vague addresses like sales@teampoly, brisbane@ozpoly, info@polyworld, sales@nationalpolyindustries. - my questions are probably getting lost in the system. Do you have contact names and more specific addresses of key people so that I can be sure my questions are getting to the right person. It would seem manufacturers are the most appropriate people to be advising me on these matters.
3. Polytank industry websites are telling people spent tanks can be recycled. This makes people feel they are making the right choice for the environment by purchasing a poly tank. Why are they being misled on this? It seems more like a marketing tool rather than a genuine care for the environment. I am willing to stand corrected if I am coming to the wrong conclusiions.
4. I am the getting the impression that no-one in the polytank industry is willing to address the problem that tanks are already failing. If no-one acknowledges there is a problem in the first place I guess there is no need to discuss recycling, ......is there?.
Don Matthews
----------------------------------------------------------
Leisa Donlan
to Don Matthews
Jul 28, 2008
RE: Recycling spent poly tanks
Dear Don
I can see you are becoming frustrated.
Please let me reassure you that ARMA has been working on a project in conjunction with University of Auckland and two of the largest material suppliers, for the past two years on the most efficient method to ensure that ALL rotomoulded polyethylene tanks currently being sold into the market will be able to be efficiently recycled. The actual process of recycling occurs now and is common practice between manufacturers and their recyclers, however the necessary infrastructure to make it easy for consumers to have their old tanks collected, cleaned, cut down and reground without the support of the manufacturer, does not commonly exist.
The research project is working on two levels:
One: Identify how many times PE from tanks can be recycled without loss of properties or what additives are necessary to maintain properties to expand the current uses of regrind.
Two: Identify what additional infrastructure is necessary from either government or industry to make the process as simple as possible for consumers. (Eg collection, cleaning & cut service)
We are well aware of the future impact of the materials we use to manufacture on the environment and there is a real will in our industry, not a "marketing" ploy, that we do everything possible to ensure any environmental impact is reduced. Since the equipment and technology to recycle is available and regularly used, the biggest issue for consumers at the moment is the process of moving the tank to enable recycling.
The level of failed product is relatively low at the moment, however as product ends its life cycle, we are well aware this will increase significantly and as I've mentioned, we began to work on the issue over two years ago, when government began to change legislation to require water tanks in homes.Some manufacturers will help their customers organize this now, however in future years when these products are at the end of the life cycle it may be difficult for consumers to arrange for recycling or replacements.
Some manufacturers will currently agree to collect the wasted or failed product as a part of the replacement process and will deal with recycling themselves, others do not.The most common material produced by recycling is referred to as "regrind". It usually has high levels of carbon black additive and is used in products that serve underground or that have a limited product life, such as those I've already mentioned.
Regrind cannot be used for water tanks.
I hope this has helped clarify things for you.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
-----------------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com
Jul 30, 2008 5:26 PM
Final response to ARMA
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
Thankyou for your reply but you have still not answered the question I keep asking:
"Is there technology currently available to recycle spent tanks?"
a 'spent' tank being defined as one where UV has completely degraded the plastic
to a stage where it can no longer be repaired and has to be disposed of".
You have mentioned "The actual process of recycling occurs now and is common
practice between manufacturers and their recyclers" and also "the equipment and
technology to recycle is available and regularly used", but you neglect to mention that
this is only for recycling manufacturing scraps, seconds and other clean plastic, not
spent plastic as found in UV degraded tanks.
The only conclusions I have been able to come to are:
1. There is no current technology available to recycle spent tanks.
2. The polytank industry is unwilling to acknowledge there is a problem with
recycling spent tanks therefore feels no need to discuss any recycling issue
or address the problem it has created
3. The claims that tanks can be recycled as posted on industry websites (particularly
the very reassuring one on ARMA's website) are simply marketing tools designed
to take advantage of the current water crisis, the government and others
encouragement to buy tanks, and the desire in each of us to want to do the right
thing by the environment.
It is a pity you have let the situation develop to this stage as you have left me
no choice but to take my concerns to others better positioned to bring this matter out
into the open and to be addressed. Someone has to make a start and it is
obvious it is not going to be the polytank industry .
I will be calling for
1. Public acknowledgement by the industry that there is a problem with recycling
spent poly tanks.
2. What the indusrty is going to do to address the problem and how it is going to
dispose of tanks which have already failed and waiting to be disposed of.
3. Removal of all misleading references on industry websites that poly tanks
can be recycled .
4. The setting up of a website (www.tanktalkaustralia.com.au) for disseminating
non-biased information on the pros and cons of various types of tanks and
to act as a neutral platform for debate on tank issues. Current sites are
operated by biased vested-interest companies.
Sincerely
Don Matthews
Leisa Donlan
to me
Jul 31
Dear Don
Naturally I’m disappointed you aren’t satisfied with the answers I’ve provided. I feel I’ve provided enough information in response to your enquiries to state that spent poly tanks are currently recycled and the recycled material can be reconstituted with new UV stabilizers. I’m not sure what other proof I can provide to satisfy you that spent poly tanks are routinely recycled already.
You may wish to contact some of the companies who currently are looking for additional material for their recycling business, because there isn’t enough available for the industry’s needs:
Trent Farleigh
Vanglobe Pty Ltd
Ph: 07 3271 3955
http://www.vanglobegroup.com/
Warren Stanyer
Astron Plastics Pty Ltd
Ph: 3860 5911
http://www.astronplastics.com.au/index_aus.html
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia Inc
-----------------------------------------------------
From: Don Matthews [mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com]
Monday, 11 August 2008
To: Leisa DonlanSubject:
Email contacts for ARMA members - recycling spent poly tanks
Dear Lisa,
In my email of 24 July I asked if you had names and email contacts for for key people in member companies of ARMA.
Havn't received anything yet. The reason I am asking is that I emailed the following companies from
addresses given on their website for assistance in my research into recycling spent poly tanks.
No-one bothered to reply or acknowledge receipt of my email. They were definitely received because none were returned.
There is no excuse for this and only helps to reinforce my view that nothing is being done.
You will appreciate why I am so sceptical.
sales@nationalpolyindustries.com.au 9 July
paulh@duraplas.com.au 15 July
infoworld@polyworld.com.au 17 July
sales@teampoly.com.au 17 July
Brisbane@ozpoly.com.au 17 July
feedback@waterforce.com.au 23 July
Could you please forward names and contact emails for all managing directors of ARMA associated comanies.
Maybe then I will be able to get a response to my questions.
Thanks
Don Matthews
------------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan
to Don Matthews
Aug 11, 2008 1:38 PM
RE: Email contacts for ARMA members - recycling spent poly tanks
Dear Don
I have sent you the contact names for three of the companies currently involved in recycling. I strongly suggest contacting them would be the best start for you. Rotational moulders gather the material, cut it to a size to be recycled and then arrange for it to be collected by the recyclers.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
-----------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Aug 11, 2008 12:59 PM
Auckland Uni work
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
I am interested in finding out more about the work you are doing with Auckland University on finding new ways to make it easier for tank owners to recycle their own tanks at the end of their product life
Thanks
Don
------------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan
to Don Matthews
Aug 11, 2008 1:38 PM
RE: Email contacts for ARMA members - recycling spent poly tanks
Dear Don
Details of the research currently being undertaken are restricted to ARMA members, as the research is still in progress and funded by the members.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
---------------------------------------------------
Why the secrecy? Is there something to hide?
---------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Aug 15, 2008 3:26 PM
I don't quite understand
mailed-bygmail.com
To Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA
Dear Leisa.
On John Rosefelder's website
On ARMA's website www.watertanks.org.au you state "Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes they can be completely recycled" and also in an email to me of 31 July "spent tanks are currently recycled and the recycled material can be reconstituted with new UV stabilizers".
If what you say is correct why has ARMA allowed, and is still allowing, John to publicly make a false statement like this about spent poly tanks?
I would have thought ARMA was fiercely protective of its interests and would come down heavily and very quickly on anyone making false statements like this in public?
Don Matthews
---------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlanto Don Matthews
Aug 15, 2008
RE: I don't quite understand
Dear Don
This website is notorious in the industry for its inaccuracies and misleading statements. We have many several formal complaints to them and to both the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.
Regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia Inc
--------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Aug 18, 2008
Re: I don't quite understand
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
If innacurate and misleading why then has no action been taken by the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC?. Surely they would have done this by now?
Don
---------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Aug 19, 2008
I don't understand
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
Could you please send a copy of your complaint to the Office of Fair Trading and their reply. I would be very interested to see what they said. Obviously no action was taken because the statement "Currently there is no way to recycle the spent plastic" is still on the website. You will understand I therefore have no choice but to accept this statement as being correct.
When you can provide specific examples of products which have been successfully recycled (involving them having undergone trials and tests to ensure they are able to stand up to prolonged UV exposure - otherwise we don't know if the process has been successful or not, do we?) I may be able to accept your statement that "yes, they can be completely recycled". Until then, sorry.
Don Matthews
-----------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Aug 27, 2008 12:45 PM
subject; email address for egr
mailed-by gmail.com
Leisa,
Do you have an email address for egr water ? Cant find it on their website.
Don
--------------------------------------------------
No response
--------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com
Aug 28, 2008 3:50 PM
subject Complaint to Office Fair Trading
mailed-by gmail.com
Dear Leisa,
As I have had no response to my last two emails below I can only conclude that either
1. No such complaint was sent to the Office of Fair Trading, or
2. They did not bother to reply (very in fashion these days), or
3. They did reply but you don't wish to show me
Don
EMAIL AUG 15
Dear Leisa.
On John Rosefelder's website
On ARMA's website www.watertanks.org.au you state "Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes they can be completely recycled" and also in an email to me of 31 July "spent tanks are currently recycled and the recycled material can be reconstituted with new UV stabilizers".
If what you say is correct why has ARMA allowed, and is still allowing, John to publicly make a false statement like this about spent poly tanks?
I would have thought ARMA was fiercely protective of its interests and would come down heavily and very quickly on anyone making false statements like this in public?
Don Matthews
REPLY
Dear Don
This website is notorious in the industry for its inaccuracies and misleading statements. We have many several formal complaints to them and to both the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
EMAIL 18 AUG
Dear Leisa,
If innacurate and misleading why then has no action been taken by the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC?. Surely they would have done this by now?
Don
EMAIL 19 AUG
Dear Leisa,
Could you please send a copy of your complaint to the Office of Fair Trading and their reply. I would be very interested to see what they said. Obviously no action was taken because the statement "Currently there is no way to recycle the spent plastic" is still on the website. You will understand I therefore have no choice but to accept this statement as being correct.
When you can provide specific examples of products which have been successfully recycled (involving them having undergone trials and tests to ensure they are able to stand up to prolonged UV exposure - otherwise we don't know if the process has been successful or not, do we?) I may be able to accept your statement that "yes, they can be completely recycled". Until then, sorry.
Don Matthews
--------------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan
to Don Matthews
Aug 29, 2008
RE: Complaint to Office Fair Trading
Don
I have replied to your many emails and tried to impart information in a simple way, that you are able to understand. I have provided you with several referrals to other people who commonly recycle spent poly tanks, who have indicated they are willing to provide you with more information or confirmation of what I have explained and you have chosen not to contact them, I can only assume because you don’t want verification of what you don’t choose to believe. I’m aware you have contacted many moulders and I’m sure they will provide you with information if you are prepared to honestly provide a reason for you needing all the information. Naturally they will not want to impart information to anyone they believe may be in competition to them or have some other undisclosed interest in the industry.
When you first contacted me, you indicated an interest in providing the poor of South East Asia water tanks, which we would have been delighted to assist with. I gather from your last several emails, you are no longer interested in this scheme but have been diverted down some other path, leaving them to manage for themselves.
The function of the association is to provide support to manufacturers and generic industry wide information. I have no idea why your emails seem to continue to be deliberately offensive, unless this is your usual method of communicating. If you genuinely question if poly tanks can be recycled, I would suggest you contact your friend, whose tank was recycled with ARMA’s assistance. Since you must be aware that this is the case, your inference that I am somehow lying is puzzling to me.
To date you have accused both myself and my organisation of providing & publishing false information or lying to the public in our statements, failing to acknowledge legitimate enquiries and failing to perform the necessary tests to ensure recycled material can be used. In addition you have at different times called for our public acknowledgement that the industry has a problem with recycling spent tanks (which I have indicated we do not), demanded to know what the industry is going to do about the problem (information I have already provided), insisted on the removal of all “misleading” references on industry websites regarding recycling (we in no way agree they are misleading) and indicated you will be setting up a website (www.tanktalkaustralia.com.au) for disseminating “unbiased” information.
Since is it is no part of my role to waste members time in responding to someone who is clearly looking to widely publish their own, possibly detrimental statements, has shown a complete lack of understanding of the process, its materials and good manners, I have stopped responding to you as, you indicate, have others.
You question why ARMA does not take legal action against someone who is publishing false information. My response is that there are many claims in any area of Australian business that could be proved to be false and show a lack of understanding or a vested interest in providing false information and I have already explained our policy to you on these claims. It is not in the industry’s best interests to take private legal action against all those claims, however naturally we would take any public accusation that either myself or my organisation is lying as very serious, if we felt it was causing damage to either ourselves or our industry and refer those claims to our legal counsel.
In the meantime, I would encourage you to contact Office of Fair Trading yourself about any concerns you have, either with the website you mentioned, or with our own. I’m very confident I can provide proof to someone with a reasonable understanding that the statements on our website are completely true and can be verified.
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia Inc
---------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Sep 2, 2008
subject
Re: Complaint to Office Fair Trading
mailed-by gmail.com
Lisa
I acknowledge receipt of your email of 29 Aug and will respond in due course.
Don
----------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Sep 3, 2008 1:31 PM
subject Reply to email 29 August
mailed-by gmail.com
Leisa,
I am concerned at a number of comments you have made in your last email of 29 Aug.
It would seem to have been put together in rather a hurry and without careful checking of what I have actually said..
You have misquoted me on several occasions, introduced emotionally charged words and invented a story about the poor of South East Asia which has painted me in a bad light. I do not appreciate this.
All I am doing is asking questions to try and get to the bottom of two conflicting website statements on the recycling of spent poly tanks - one which says they can and another which says they can't.
What I have been getting from the polytank industry to my questions are vague and evasive replies or no replies at all. The conclusion I am rapidly coming to is that the recycling issue is far from sorted.
I am concerned about the approach you are now taking. It is not conducive to ongoing discussion of an important environmental issue at a professional level. I do not wish to see the tone of this debate deteriorate.
I shall be responding to the concerns I have mentioned above in due course and I am sorry if you now regard corresponding with me as a "waste of members's time".
Don Matthews
-----------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Sep 4, 2008 2:00 PM
subject Enjoy Belfast - look forward 2 your return
mailed-by gmail.com
Hiya Leisa,
Hope you enjoying Belfast. Missing our lively conversations. Have some more curly ones for you when you get back (oh no....)
Cheers
Don M
PS don't work too hard.
---------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
Sep 9, 2008
subject A concocted story?
mailed-by gmail.com
Leisa,
In your email of 29 August you made the following statement about me:
"When you first contacted me, you indicated an interest in providing the poor of South East Asia water tanks, which we would have been delighted to assist with. I gather from your last several emails, you are no longer interested in this scheme but have been diverted down some other path, leaving them to manage for themselves"
Now you either were so busy getting ready for belfast that you slipped up somewhere in all your frantic preparations, or you are deliberately concocting a story to put me in a bad light.
Please explain
Don Matthews
---------------------------------------------------
Leisa Donlan to me
Sep 16
Don
Our records indicate that a telephone contact was made to ARMA by “Don Matthews” on 7 July, 2008 on the matter I described below. Since I received your first email only a couple of days later, I assumed it was the same person. If it was not yourself, as you seem to indicate, it must have been a co-incidence.
My apologies for the mix up.
Leisa Donlan
----------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
subject A concocted story? mailed-by gmail.com
Sep 16, 2008 2:33 PM
subject
Re: A concocted story?
mailed-by gmail.com
Leisa,
Not to worry. It wasn't me, but like you say it is a very strange coincidence. Thanks for the apology. You're back in my good books again. You may not be aware but we are going to have a lot to do with each other over the next 12 months or so. All positive and good I can assure you but there may be a few rough patches. You will get to know me better as we go on and my 'silly little ways'. You should be starting to become aware by now that there is more behind me than first realized. All I ask for is openess and honesty .
Good to hear from you and hope belfast went OK. I can imagine the pileup of emails you've now got to wade through. I'll leave you alone for a while.
Cheers
Don
---------------------------------------------------
Copy of following email to All Poly was forwarded to Leisa initiating websites details to research
----------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to sales@allpoly.com.au
Sep 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Dear All Poly,
I notice you sell poly rainwater tanks and wondered if you could help me.I am wanting to buy a poly tank but would like to know if it can be recycled when it eventually is broken down by sunlight. I would like to think I was doing the right thing by the environment in buying a tank which can be recycled at the end of its life.
Thanks for your help
Don Matthews
Reply
from All Poly Products
to Don Matthews
25 Sep 2008 RE: Recycling spent poly tank
Afternoon Don,
Our quality tanks are made from UV stabilised virgin linear low density polyethylene which is 100% recyclable. Your All Poly Tank will not break down by sunlight or need recycling in your lifetime as it is one of the best quality tanks on the market. We actually use large amounts of this recycled material to make products other than tanks where strength and appearance is not as critical.
Thank you for your interest in our quality products. Please feel free to contact us by email or phone for your nearest All Poly tank distributor.
Kind regards
Roxi Stone
sales
from
Don Matthews
to All Poly Products
cc
Oct 2, 2008 12:05 PM
Re: Recycling spent poly tank
Dear Roxi,
Thankyou for your reply but with respect I suspect you are just giving me 'sales talk' and not the true story.
It is an accepted fact that all plastic eventually breaks down in sunlight regardless of how much UV stabilizer is added and that the expected life of a poly tank is in the region of 20-30 years. Your statement "your Allpoly tank will not break down in sunlight or need recycling in your lifetime" ( 70 years?) is completely untrue. It is of concern that you are giving a member of the public incorrect information in order to sell your tanks and make them feel environmentally comfortable .
Would I be correct in saying the plastic you refer to in your statement "we actually large amounts of this recycled material to make products" refers only to clean plastic such as factory offcuts, seconds etc and not fully UV degraded spent plastic? (QUESTION 1).
Sunlight eventually breaks down plastic making it brittle and lose all its strength. The long-chain polymer molecules which allow plastic to be moulded and give it its strength and rigidity are ruptured by UV light. No amount of added UV stabilizers will prevent the chemical degradation process from occurring. Essentially the plastic disintegrates and loses all its properties. As a result I do not see how it is then possible to remould it into other products. Is the correct? (QUESTION 2)
If I am not correct (and I am more than happy to be put right) and fully UV degraded plastic is actually being remoulded as you claim what evidence can you provide to support this? What process is being used and what products is the spent plastic being turned into? (QUESTION 3)
I am concerned that in the not-too-distant future millions of spent tanks will be lying around waiting to be disposed of. If the problem of their recycling is not resolved we are likely to have a major environmental pollution problem on our hands.
Could you please give me the name and email address of the General Manager of Allpoly as I would like to take matter up further (QUESTION 4)
Please respond to my questions or pass this email on to someone in your organisation who can.
Thankyou,
Don Matthews
-----------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan
to Don Matthews
Oct 2, 2008
RE: Recycling spent poly tank
Dear Don
You may like to refer to:
http://www.cpp-engineering.com/Polyethylene%20&%20Polypropylene%20Stabilizers.htm
http://www.ferret.com.au/c/Thomas-Plastics/Custom-Rotational-Moulding-Service-p15318
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5258/is_200605/ai_n20336744
http://www.consonic.com/granulators.html
Just for some internet research.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
---------------------------------------------------
from Don Matthews
to Leisa Donlan
date Nov 5, 2008 11:47 AM
subject Welcome back Leisa
mailed-by gmail.com
WELCOME BACK LEISA
Dear Leisa,
I hope you had a good trip to USA and that all went well.
Things have been 'hotting up' so to speak during your absence. What initially started out as a matter of private curiosity and interest to me regarding recycling of spent poly tanks seems to be turning into something much more than I expected.
I thought it would be all quite simple and straightforward The industry and yourself were telling everyone that UV-degraded (spent) tanks can be recycled, yet when I start asking for more details and evidence I am greeted with silence. This is very strange.
I'm sure some of your ARMA members will have updated you on my tirade of curly questions by now. Think it may be causing headaches for some. Sorry bout that.
Now there is something I need to tell you. A few 'high profilers' have suddenly taken an interest in what I'm doing so I thought it would be a help to everyone if I put all my emails and responses together in a 'report' of some kind. Then it's all together for easy reference for anyone who want to use it. Who knows, someone might even be interested in publishing it? You never can tell. A title I have been playing around with is "The current state of recycling UV-degraded poly tanks in Australia" What do you think?
It could turn out to be a positive for the industry in letting the public know the industry is being environmentally responsible by doing something to honour its reassurance "Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes, they can be completely recycled".
The industry and yourself have been very helpful in providing me with material for my research. Thanks again.
I look forward to further communication and dialogue on this issue which is of importance to every Australian.
Don
----------------------------------------------------------
Leisa Donlan to me
Nov 5
Dear Don
I have seen several of your emails to the industry, quoting my previous emails to you. I would encourage you to speak to a materials scientist, who may be able to explain to you, in language you can understand, the process of adding new stabilizers to recycled material, which makes it suitable for reprocessing.
In the meantime, I’ve also included some websites that show not only the recycling process but also some of the products which rHDPE is used to manufacture. In the USA manufacturers now compete for a “Best Product” award for recycled projects and we look forward to adding a similar stream to our current awards program.
http://www.astronplastics.com.au/aus/resin.html
http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Products/Drum_Bunds_Polyethylene_-_Australian_Made_from_Recycled_Materials-28512
http://www.playlsi.com/Products/Accessories/SiteAmenities/Recycled+PolyethyleneBench/
http://www.kaiserkraft.co.uk/equipment/industrial_grid_matting-44.html
http://www.bmackay.com.au/dp/menucust.htm
I believe the reasons for the silence from the industry are because you have been unwilling to disclose your real interest and the fact that recycling is so common, the answers to your questions are readily available with some active research on your part.
I look forward to seeing your published report and hope it will contain accurate facts that reflect an understanding of the recycling process, how its being used by our industry and a call for local government to become more heavily involved in making the collection process easier for homeowners across Australia.
Regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of Rotational
Moulders Australasia Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Leisa Donlan ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Wed, Dec 3, 2008 RE: Disposal of spent poly tank
Dear Don
I would like to send you some information that verifies PE is routinely recycled but it is in hard copy. Could you please provide an snail mail address?
Regards
Leisa Donlan
-------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Wed, Dec 3, 2008
Re: Disposal of spent poly tankmailed-bygmail.com
Leisa
I have no problem with the fact that non UV degraded polyethylene can and is currently being recycled. This is not an issue with me or APTCIG. What is an issue is UV degraded plastic. There is no way this can be remoulded. A fact of chemistry and physics. I stand to be corrected but every direction I take ends up with the same answer. UV degraded plastic is only fit for one thing - the dump. I think there needs to be a big education program about this. I think there is ignorance in the industry and the public. The info you want to send would need to be specific to UV-degraded plastic
Don
------------------------------------------------------------
Leisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Wed, Dec 3, 2008
RE: Disposal of spent poly tank
Don
Yes, it is. Its a 2003 study, performed by University of Queensland and the Brisbane City Council which led to the development of products, manufactured using UV degraded polyethylene. This particular scheme now uses outdoor seating, rubbish bins and other rotomoulded products in Brisbane parks and public areas which are brought in and recycled back into the same products.
Most regrind made from products in service is brought in from the environment and reprocessed for use blow moulding, because there is a lack of material for that process.
To be very simplistic about the process: UV degraded, rotomoulded PE is cut up into little pieces The little pieces are reprocessed into pellets including new UV stabilizers and carbon blackFor blow moulding, the material is formed into pellets for processing or the pellets are ground into powder for rotomoulding
Perhaps 30 years ago chemistry may not have been available, however, as I've mentioned several times already, the plastics industry has moved on since the early 1980's and recycling of spent PE is a regular and ordinary process in this millennium.
Regards
Leisa
-----------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Thu, Dec 4, 2008
Re: Disposal of spent poly tank
Leisa,
Interesting what you say but I am still sceptical, however, I still stand to be corrected if proved wrong. Can you scan and email the information? If not is there any reference I can go to to on the net or U of Q/BCC to find out more about the 2003 study you mention? The UV degraded polyethylene I am talking about is brittle, lost all of its strength and all of its plastic properties. You know what a plastic watering can is like when it has been out in the sun for a long time. It literally falls apart and there is no good plastic left. This is what poly tanks will end up being like. People will not replace them until they stop holding water and literally falling apart. You say outdoor seating, rubbish bins and other rotomoulded products are being brought in and recycled. I would suspect these are not ones which are falling apart but still have plenty of non UV degraded plastic left in them. Bench seats and rubbish bins would never have a chance to get anywhere near the stage a UV degraded tank will get. Put me on to specific recyclers where this is going on and I will investigate.
My Vanglobe material scientist contact was the Technical Manager (B App Sci Chem) who showed initial interest in a 'research project' but as soon as I began asking more searching questions and for evidence he went silent. I have asked several times for a response but get no replies. If anyone should know what's going on in the field of plastic recycling these days it would be him. The mere fact he has gone silent is a pretty clear message to me that this is an unknown area.
The industry is madly hoping UV degraded plastic can be recycled - but as yet have not been able to come up with any evidence. No positive response from the industry and no denying what I am beginning to say more widely tells me I am on the right track - UV degraded polyethylene can't be recycled. Prove otherwise and might start rethinking.
I think the industry is clutching at straws.
Don
----------------------------------------------------
from Leisa Donlan ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com
to Don Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Dec 4, 2008
RE: Disposal of spent poly tank
Don
Unfortunately its too large to scan, if you aren't willing to provide a mailing address, I must assume you don't really want to receive any information that could verify how common the process of recycling is today.
Tony Mercieca, your contact from Vanglobe is no longer employed by the company and I assume this would be the reason for his lack of response.
I'm well aware of what UV degraded polyethylene looks like, even after its been in service for decades. Are you?
Rotationally moulded PE used for water tanks cannot be compared with injection moulded materials used to make buckets or chairs.
Even after 20 years service, cross sections of tank walls show there is only a thin layer of degraded material on the exposed parts of the tank. Some UV stabilizers are added into the virgin material to burn off during processing without degrading the material. Other UV stabilizers are added to ensure product can operate in the environment. Both of these stabilizers can easily be re-added to degraded, recycled material so it can be processed again. I've sent you the technical details of these stabilizers in a hyperlink twice already. Have you bothered to "research" them?
I simply don't know how to convince you that plastic is commonly recycled and I'm beginning to suspect you don't want to be convinced. You seem not to want to believe any of the evidence I have provided to you, nor have you been open about providing this information on your website to allow people to review all the data and make their own, informed, decision.
I would be very interested to know what material or processes your "Backyard Liner Tanks" are made from or use and what process you have in place to ensure they can be easily and effectively recycled at the end of their product lives. Are you aware of their carbon footprint?
The industry is aware that they are not dealing with a "concerned citizen" but are being asked to respond to a competitor who has not been willing to be honest about his activities. Hence the lack of response to you.
Although I'm sure it won't happen, I would like to see you publish this email in its entirety on your blog.
Leisa Donlan
-----------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Fri, Dec 5, 2008
Request details Vanglobe Technical Manager replacement
mailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
In your email of 5 November you said
"I would encourage you to speak to a materials scientist, who may be able to explain to you, in language you can understand, the process of adding new stabilizers to recycled material, which makes it suitable for reprocessing."
I did make contact with the material scientist from Vanglobe (recycler and supplier of plastic resin top the industry) a Mr Tony Mercieca (Technical Manager and B App Sc Chem). We did begin a productive discussion but he just stopped communicating midstream for some unknown reason.
You have now informed me that he is no longer employed by Vanglobe (4 Dec) which could explain why I have not heard from him despite making several attempts to establish contact again.
Could you please forward me the name and email address of his replacement at Vanglobe so I can continue the discussion thus following your valued advice.
Don Matthews
-------------------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Dec 5, 2008
RE: Request details Vanglobe Technical Manager replacement
Don
Are you asking similar questions of the metal tank manufacturers? Metal tanks are not recycled in Australia, the material goes to landfill.
Leisa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Fri, Dec 5, 2008
Re: Request details Vanglobe Technical Manager replacement
Leisa,
What has metal tanks got to do with my request for details of Tony Mercieca's replacement?
Don
_________________________________
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateFri, Dec 5, 2008
ARMA response for report
mailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
In a previous email you said it was
"not a part of my role to waste member's time in responding to someone who is clearly looking to publish their own, possibly detrimental statement, has shown a complete lack of understanding of the process, its materials and good manners, I have stopped responding to you" (29 Aug)
I know you are a very busy lady and as I don't want to be accused of 'wasting' any more of your valuable time I have devised three very simple straightforward questions. I need it for an official ARMA response to be included in my research report to be published in the new year.
Q1 and Q2 only require one word answers yes or no. From what you keep saying to me all the time your answers should be Q1 'no' and Q2 'no'. Q3 should only take a couple of minutes to find 1) the name and email address of a recycler who is currently recycling UV degraded polyethylene and 2) a manufacturer (and email address) who is using this recycled UV degraded plastic so I can communicate with them and find out what process they are using and what products they are being turnedinto.
Please note it must be specifically UV degraded plastic not non-degraded plastic, and they will need to spell this out in writing. Like you I am a very busy person and don't want to be sent on any more wild goose chases.
QUESTION 1
Sunlight eventually breaks down plastic making it brittle and lose all its strength. The long-chain polymer molecules which allow plastic to be moulded and give it its strength and rigidity are ruptured by UV light. No amount of added UV stabilizers will prevent the chemical degradation process from occurring. Essentially the plastic disintegrates and loses all its properties. As a result I don't see how it is possible to then remould it into other products. Is the correct?
QUESTION 2
Would I be correct in saying that polyethylene plastic currently being recycled is only clean plastic such as factory scraps, seconds etc and not fully UV degraded (spent) plastic ?
QUESTION 3
If I am not correct (and I am more than happy to be put right) and fully UV degraded plastic is actually being remoulded what evidence is there to support this? What process is being used and what products is the spent plastic being turned into?
Sorry to bother you again,
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
asking questions, recording responses, drawing conclusions
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Dec 5, 2008
RE: ARMA response for report
Don
I'm happy to provide all the information you require when you provide me with a hard copy mail address which any legitimate organisation should be willing to provide.
Leisa
______________________________
Don Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Dec 5, 2008
Re: ARMA response for reportmailed-bygmail.com
Leisa
I don't believe this!
First Gough Plastics won't answer my questions on important environmental recycling issues unless I tell them who I work for. I tell them I don't work for anyone and they don't believe me so I then make up a name to keep them happy,
Then you say I am a competitor.
Now you won't send information which will only benefit yourself and the industry unless I give you a postal address.
If that's way you want to play it's your choice.
All emails are going into my report.
It will be interesting to see what other people are going to think about all this.
The ball's in your court.
Email the information.
No postal address.
Sorry.
Don Matthews
_________________________________
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Dec 8, 2008
subject Give me a valid reason
mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
You said on 5 Dec
"I'm happy to provide all the information you require when you provide me with a hard copy mail address which any legitimate organisation should be willing to provide"
Why does the the information I am requesting, and which you are happy to provide, need to be posted? What's the matter with email?
Please give me a valid reason why I should have to provide you with a mailing address before you will send information to help me with my private research (as a concerned member of the public) into the recycling UV degraded poly tanks.
Don
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
todonmatthews7@gmail.com
Dec 9, 2008
: Give me a valid reason
Dear Don
The report is bound and hundreds of pages. It cannot be scanned.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
--------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Dec 10, 2008 :
Re: Give me a valid reason
mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
Were you planning to post me the whole report?
Not necessary. All I need is a copy of the relevant pages spelling out that UV degraded plastic can/and is being recycled and where it is being done so I can go and investigate.
Don
---------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Wed, Dec 17, 2008
subject Request for information
mailed-bygmail.com
To: Leisa Donlan CEO Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia
From: Don Matthews APTCIG
Leisa,
Please email names and email addresses for Managing Directors of the following manufacturers. I wish to ask some serious questions on recycling.
National Poly Industries
Ozpoly
EGR Water
If you choose not to release this information without a valid reason I will interpret your actions as a deliberate attempt to block my investigations into industry 'recycling' claims and will make every effort to make my view widely known.
Don Matthews
APTCIG Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
seeking honest answers to open and honest questions
----------------------------------------------------------
No response. My view is now being made widely known as promised. The following is being circulated to the polytank industry. It will then be circulated to the general public.
-----------------------------------------------------------
ARMA
(Association of Rotomoulders Australia) blocks investigations into poly tank recycling claims.
According to Don Matthews, leader of the Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group (APTCIG), UV-degraded plastic cannot be recycled and the polytank industry is misleading the Australian public on recycling.
In a survey of the industry conducted over the past 6 months he was reassured repeatedly by manufacturers and suppliers that UV-degraded tanks could be recycled at the end of their life. On further questioning and requests for evidence the industry went quiet.
APTCIG now wants to put questions to company directors but their association CEO Leisa Donlan seems not to want to go along with this idea.
Over the past months ARMA has put up the following obstructions to APTCIG investigations:
On 11 Aug 2008 I emailed:
Dear Lisa,
In my email of 24 July I asked if you had names and email contacts for key people in member companies of ARMA.
Haven't received anything yet. The reason I am asking is that I emailed the following companies from addresses given on their website for assistance in my research into recycling spent poly tanks. No-one bothered to reply or acknowledge receipt of my email. They were definitely received because none were returned. There is no excuse for this and only helps to reinforce my view that nothing is being done. You will appreciate why I am so sceptical.
sales@nationalpolyindustries.com.au 9 July
paulh@duraplas.com.au 15 July
infoworld@polyworld.com.au 17 July
sales@teampoly.com.au 17 July
Brisbane@ozpoly.com.au 17 July
feedback@waterforce.com.au 23 July
Could you please forward names and contact emails for all managing directors of ARMA associated companies. Maybe then I will be able to get a response to my questions.
Thanks,
Don Matthews
No response
On 11 Aug 2008 I emailed:
Dear Leisa,
I am interested in finding out more about the work you are doing with Auckland University on finding new ways to make it easier for tank owners to recycle their own tanks at the end of their product life
Thanks
Don
Dear Don
Details of the research currently being undertaken are restricted to ARMA members, as the research is still in progress and funded by the members.
Regards
Leisa Donlan
On 27 Aug 2008 I emailed:
Leisa,
Do you have an email address for egr water ? Can't find it on their website.
Don
No response
On Dec 17 2008 I emailed:
To: Leisa Donlan CEO Association of Rotational Moulders Australasia
From: Don Matthews APTCIG
Leisa,
Please email names and email addresses for Managing Directors of the following manufacturers.
I wish to ask some serious questions on recycling.
National Poly Industries
Ozpoly
EGR Water
If you choose not to release this information without a valid reason I will interpret your actions as a deliberate attempt to block my investigations into industry 'recycling' claims and will make every effort to make my view widely known.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
seeking honest answers to open and honest questions
No response. I am now proceeding to make my view widely known.
-----------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com%3EtoLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Dec 30, 2008
Request for ARMA board members
mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
Please email names of ARMA board members.
Don Matthews
APTCIG Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
seeking open and honest answers to open and honest questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Matthews <mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com%3EtoLeisa Donlan <mailto:ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com%3EDec 31, 2008 Request for OFT and ACCC complaints mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
I wish to check you have been telling me the truth.
On 15 Aug 2008 you said
"This website is notorious in the industry for its inaccuracies and misleading statements. We have many several formal complaints to them and to both the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC"
Please email a copy of the formal complaints you claim to have sent to the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC together with a copy of their reply. If you you are unable to send copies I will have no option but to conclude you were making the story up.
Don Matthews APTCIG
-------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateThu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:27 PM
subjectMake your decision Leisamailed-bygmail.com
From: Don Matthews APTCIG
To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA (Association of Rotomoulders Australia)
Leisa,
I have requested the following information on several occasions:
1. Name and email address Managing Director EGR Water. I wish to ask some questions.
2. Name and email address Managing Director Ozpoly. I wish to ask some questions.
3. Name and email address Managing Director National Poly Industries. I wish to ask some questions.
4 Names of ARMA board members. I wish to ask some questions
5. . Copies of complaints you claim to have sent to ACCC and Office of Fair Trading regarding John Rosenfelder's 'notorious' website http://www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com/. I want to check if you were telling me the truth. Please email requested information.
I will give you until close of business on Fri 30 Jan to make your decision. If you decide against I will find out in my own way.
Don MatthewsAPTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"seeking open and honest answers to open and honest questions"
------------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
dateThu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:16 PM
subjectRE: Make your decision Leisa
“WITHOUT PREJUDICE”
Dear Mr Matthews
It is our contention you have made and published false statements that we believe have had and will continue to have a detrimental effect on the industry while they remain in the public arena. It is our further claim that this has resulted in financial losses to the Association and its member companies through loss of sales. We also believe that your false or edited copies of correspondence to journalists have damaged the reputation of the Association, for which we should be compensated.
The Association requests you remove the following information and content from your website http://thegreataustralianpolytankdebate.blogspot.com/ by close of business on Friday 23rd January, 2009:
Any information regarding our organisation, myself or our staff
Copies of any correspondence between us
Any reference to any of our member companies, their directors or staff
Copies of any correspondence from our member companies
Any claims that “poly” tanks cannot be recycled
And further, that you agree not to author or publish any similar information in the future.
Should you choose not to amend or remove your website by the time listed in our email, the matter will be referred to our lawyers for immediate action to commence. If the website is withdrawn or edited as requested, we will agree not to pursue the matter legally.
Regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of RotationalMoulders Australasia Inc.
PO Box 826, Ipswich Q 4305 AustraliaPhone: +617 3812 1450 Fax: +617 3009 0600Email: ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com Web: http://www.rotationalmoulding.com/
----------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateFri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM
subjectRe: Make your decision Leisamailed-bygmail.com
From: Don Matthews APTCIG
To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA
Leisa,
I am unable to remove the weblog. My hands are tied by the search for truth and honesty. All I can do is remove any information which can be proved incorrect. The people of Autralia will now judge for themselves and decide the outcome.
Sorry,
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"seeking open and honest answers to open and honest questions"
----------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
date Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:38 AM
subjectRE: Make your decision Leisa
"WITHOUT PREJUDICE"
Dear Mr Matthews
I am unsure why you claim you cannot delete the blog. The instructions to do so (from your blog server) are below and can easily be found at http://help.blogger.com/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=41387 We are prepared to allow you a further week to delete the blog before we begin legal action, however after that time, should the blog remain online, we will immediately move forward without further correspondence.
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
How do I delete a blog?
To delete your entire blog, just go to Settings Basic:
At this point, make absolutely sure that you are on the right blog and that you want to permanently remove it from your account. Then click Delete This Blog: and confirm by clicking OK Note: If your blog is on your own server, its files will not be deleted. You can FTP in and delete them manually. Related Articles:How do I delete a post? How do I cancel my account? How do post a redirect to my new address?
------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM
subjectPlease provide evidence Leisa 1
mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
In your email of 22 January 2009 you made the statement:
"It is our contention you have made and published false statements"
Please identify any specific statements I have made or published and provide me with evidence which proves they are incorrect
I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
---------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateTue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:56 PM
subjectRe: Make your decision Leisamailed-bygmail.com
From: Don Matthews APTCIG
To: Leisa Donlan ARMA
Dear Leisa,
Thankyou for giving me 1 weeks grace to consider removing my weblog. It is most kind of you. I will use this time to see whether the people of Australia think I should cave in and remove it and will get back to you with my decision by close of business on Fri 30 January.
Thankyou once again.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"voice of the little people"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:00 PM
subjectCorrecting my weblog
mailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
Could you please help me sort out which statements on my weblog are incorrect. I thought if I could remove or correct any false statements you would feel happier that I am not then saying or publishing any untruths.
If everything on the weblog is then correct there shouldn't be any problem, should there?
I am going to ask you a series of questions, one at a time, and put them on the weblog for public view. Tell me if it is incorrect and give me your reasons. If you can prove that what am saying is incorrect I will look at it and either remove it or change it. You will have an audience waiting for your answer.
You have given me till close of business on Fri 30th before you begin legal proceedings so I trust you will keep to your word. I am about to email and post the first question.
Don
-----------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM
subjectPlease provide evidence Leisa 1
mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
In your email of 22 January 2009 you made the statement:
"It is our contention you have made and published false statements"
Please identify any specific statements I have made or published and provide me with evidence which proves they are incorrect
I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.
Don Matthews
APTCIGAustralian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
-----------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM
subjectPlease provide evidence Leisa 2
mailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
In your email of 22 January 2009 you stated:
"We also believe that your false or edited copies of correspondence to journalists have damaged the reputation of the Association, for which we should be compensated"
Please provide evidence of any correspondence I have sent to journalists. I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
----------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM
subjectPlease provide evidence Leisa 3
mailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
In your email of 15 August 2008 you stated:
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
dateFri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
subjectRE: I don't quite understand
Dear Don
This website (www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com) is notorious in the industry for its inaccuracies and misleading statements. We have many several formal complaints to them and to both the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.
Regards
Leisa Donlan,
FSAE
Please provide copies of complaints you claim to have sent to Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.
I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
------------------------------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:00
Dear Mr Matthews
I have provided evidence on the recyclability of HDPE including technical references and recycling company contact details several times. You have chosen not to publish any of this information on your site, nor have you contacted the companies that perform the recycling. I’ve attached some more references on recycling but I have suspected for some time, you have no interest in establishing that recycling is common and are easily led by less intelligent claims from competitors. I would have thought that with even a wider chemistry qualification you would be aware that PVC, PET & HDPE are completely different chemical compositions and claiming one will behave exactly the same way as another because they are all “plastic” is simplistic and inaccurate. To assist you I have provided the first pages of your site showing highlighted areas of concern.
Regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE
---------------------------------------------
fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>Feb 4, 2009 at 2:05 : Deadline passed
Mr Matthews
What we can prove, we will now prove in court:
That you edited emails that were sent to you when you published them (we have copies of all the originals).
That you ignored confidentiality clauses contained in emails and then published them in total or in part (we also have copies of those).
That you were provided with proof of recycling via technical content and even the Internationally recognised standard for plastics recycling and that you chose not to publish any of that information.
That you claim to be an expert with a relevant qualification (but you were in fact a publish servant in the education arena).
That we made an attempt to resolve the situation with you (through providing all the information you requested last week).
And that all of your biased claims therefore have damaged my own reputation and that of the industry (and that both ARMA & myself should receive financial compensation for that).
I would recommend you seek your own legal advice before you continue to correspond with me further.
Regards Leisa Donlan,
FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of RotationalMoulders Australasia Inc.
PO Box 826, Ipswich Q 4305 AustraliaPhone: +617 3812 1450 Fax: +617 3009 0600
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fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Fri, Feb 6, 2009 subject Members are askingmailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
Members of APTCIG are asking why your letters of complaint (and replies) you claim to have sent to ACCC and OFT regarding John Rosenfelder's 'notorious' website need to be kept 'confidential'. Is there something to hide? Or did you not really make any complaints?........ If you, did, please convince us. At present we don't believe you.
Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
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fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateFri, Feb 6, 2009 subject Peoples Court vs Court of Law mailed-bygmail.com
Leisa,
I have sought advice from my 'legal' advisers. Their silence suggests I am OK to continue. So I am. You are going to try and prove that you are right and I am wrong in a court of law. You will be spending Association member's money in doing this. I am going to prove that I am right and you are wrong in a peoples court. I am going to debate you on the weblog to all Australia. The people of Australia will then have all the facts before them. They will then be the judge and jury and decide the outcome.And it won't cost my members a penny.
Don MatthewsAPTCIGAustralian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
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From: APTCIG HQ
To: Ms Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA
Copy to: undisclosed recipients
Dear Ms Donlan,
Gosh, we do hope you know what you are doing.
Your move to take our leader to court over his weblog has sent him into a right tizz.
We fear here at APTCIQ when gets in one of these tizzes there's no telling what he might do. When he received your email he shot out the door under a thundercloud muttering something about "go jump". Concerned that he was going to go and jump off the nearest building we immediately contacted Clinic Ooolaalaa. Luck has it he had just arrived.
Phew! Don't know what all the "go jump' was about.
You've not heard of Ooolaalaa? This is the second time our leader has scooted off to University of Maradonga's haven of rest for research-torn scientists to recuperate from shock. The first was a couple of months ago when like a bolt of lightening out of the sky came this email from Research and Development of one of the major, no, not your little fly-by-night polytankers, but a major, I mean MAJOR manufacturer, known right across the country, agreeing with our don that UV degraded poly tanks cannot be recycled. Can you believe that?!!!!!
We are burning the midnight oil here at APTCIG busily constructing our Peoples Court weblog and gathering together a people's jury from all over the country. It should be an interesting battle - your Court of Law to prove you are right and our don is wrong pitted against our Peoples Court to prove you are wrong and our leader is right. It will be an interesting 'battle' to follow in tandem with the Great Australian Poly Tank Debate
We wish you all the best in your Court of Law action and hope ARMA members will consider their money well spent.
We look forward with relish to our leader's rapid return to once more take up the search for truth and the fight against suppression.
Polly F Leen (Miss)
Secretary
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency, and we shoot from the hip"
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fromDon Matthews <mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com%3EtoLeisa Donlan <mailto:ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com%3EdateMon, Feb 16, 2009subjectThe Great Australian Poly Tank Debate 1mailed-bygmail.com
From: Don Matthews To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA Copy to: undisclosed recipients
Dear Leisa,
You seem rather shy in coming forward to answer my questions.
To help overcome your shyness I am going to post my questions in the form of mini debates. Look at the http://thegreataustralianpolytankdebate/ weblog . You will see I have created a debate between yourself and me. I have called this 'Debate 1 Please provide evidence' This is where you get a chance to answer my questions to an Australian audience who I am inviting to come along (and bring their picnic rugs, eskys and friends). It is important this be brought out in the open for public discussion and debate.
It is just the beginning of a number of mini debates being planned for this year. I will be engaging in debate with the many others who have contacted me over the past 6 months claiming poly tanks can be recycled.
It is fair because we now both have a chance to say what we think and question each other in front of an Australian audience. I can't think of anything fairer, can you?
Don Matthews APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency, and we shoot from the hip"
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fromDon Matthews <mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com%3EtoLeisa Donlan <mailto:ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com%3EWed, Feb 18, 2009 subjectThankyou for all your helpmailed-bygmail.com
Dear Leisa,
It has been very remiss of me not to have got back to you sooner on this. My apologies.
I wanted to thank you for all your efforts in helping to get The Great Austalian Poly Tank Debate off the ground. Without your help it would not have been possible.
Your Cease and Desist started the ball rolling then your Court of Law action gave it that much-needed rocket fuel to launch the Debate. This then put the idea in my mind of a Peoples Court. We look forward to the Peoples Court vs Court of Law Debate. I hope your preparations are coming along nicely.
Thankyou one again for your support and to the members of your Association in this historic landmark environmental debate Australia is about to witness.
Don Matthews APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"pushing for a cleaner environment"
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fromDon Matthews <mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com%3EtoLeisa Donlan <mailto:ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com%3EWed, Feb 25, 2009 subjectDebate 2 Did you or didn't you Leisa ? mailed-bygmail.com
From Don Matthews APTCIG To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA
Leisa,
Before we can move on and make any progress I need to know if you are telling me the truth. At the moment I don't think you are. You claim to have made complaints to ACCC and OFT over false claims being made by John Rosenfelder on his website. I don't believe you did make any complaints. I have asked to see copies of these complaints and responses from ACCC and OFT. You have countered with "this correspondence is confidential and I cannot supply you with a copy". I gave you an opportunity to explain to me and my APTCIG members why this information needed to be kept confidential but you have not responded. This has strenghthened our view that you are hiding something.
There are now only two options left: 1. Provide us with a copy of complaints to ACCC and OFT, and their responses or 2. Admit that no complaints were made.
The sooner we can sort this out the sooner we can move on.
Don Matthews APTCIG
Australian poly tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
PS This email has been posted on the weblog Debate 2 post. A gathering audience is awaiting your response.
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1 comment:
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